Are they one and the same Holy Spirit?

Jesus Christ the Son of God came to seek and to save those that are lost, For God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. “ For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, so that all who believe on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

What happens when a person is saved from eternal condemnation ? This person accepts Gods offer Jesus the perfect lamb as the sacrifice for the forgiveness of their sins. Just like the Jews had to have a sacrifice , a perfect lamb, for their sins as they entered the gate of the outer court of the tabernacle of Moses as they came to commune with God, so also the person wanting to come into right relationship with God, has to accept the sacrifice in the person of Jesus, who is the spotless lamb of God as a substitute for the punishment he or she was deserving from God. For we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God, no one is righteous in God’s sight. It is only through Jesus that God sees us as holy and without sin.

When did the disciples come into this salvation experience as we have come to know it ? Where they converted while Jesus taught them during His three and a half years of ministry here on the earth ? Or were they converted on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was poured out upon them? That they needed to be converted is evident from Luke 22:32 “and when you are converted strengthen your brethren.” No their conversion did not take place during His earthly ministry , or on the day of Pentecost.

So when were they converted? They could not be converted, or born again, till Jesus had become the sacrifice for their sins by His death on the cross. Therefore their conversion did not happen during His ministry before His death . However they were already converted on the day of Pentecost because the Holy Spirit will not fall upon the unconverted. In Acts 2: 38&39 When the Jews asked Peter “ what must we do?” Peter says “repent (convert) and be baptized every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is onto you and your children and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord God shall call.”

To find the answer to this question we have to turn to John 20: 19-25. The disciples are behind closed and locked doors for fear of the Jews, and Jesus appears in their midst and says to them, “Peace be with you, and when He had said so, He showed them His hands and His side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord (they believed). Then said Jesus to them again, peace be unto you, as the Father has sent me even so send I you. And when He had said this He breathed on them and said receive the Holy Ghost. Whose so ever sins you remit, they are remitted unto them, and who so ever sins you retain, they are retained.” This breath of Jesus which is the Spirit of Christ is holy and therefore is also referred to as the Holy Spirit, but it is not the Holy Spirit of God that Jesus was referring to when He said to His disciples “ wait here in Jerusalem, till you have receive the promise from on high – “ (which was fulfilled at Pentecost) The Spirit of Christ is the comforter that Christ promised to His disciples, that He would send to them. John 16: 7 “ ---for if I go not away, the comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him onto you. Every believer has the comforter Christ’s Spirit within them, however as long as Christ was on this earth the disciples were the only ones to enjoy the intimate relationship with Him, because of the direct personal relationship that He had with each one of them, but He wanted to live within all those that would become His followers throughout the ages to come and therefore had to ascend into heaven to send His Spirit the Comforter, to indwell all believers.

It was this breath of Jesus, when the disciples who were behind closed doors, that He entered and said to them,” receive the Holy Spirit” that brought about their conversion experience. When God created man out of the dust of the earth, He breathed on Adam and he became a living soul. Gen. 2 : 7. Here in this room with the doors locked Jesus breathed on them and they became living spirits, or their spirits were brought into contact with God through the Spirit of Jesus Christ and their spirits are saved from eternal condemnation. And as God looks down on repentant sinners He sees the blood that Jesus spilt for us on the cross and He sees us as holy , without ever having sinned.

Now we come to the great contrivers in the different denominations as to when do we receive the Holy Spirit of God. One group is persuaded that it all happens at our conversion experience, because the scripture says, if you have not the spirit of Christ you are none of His.( not making any distinction between Christ’s Spirit and God’s Spirit). Therefore as an individual that has experienced salvation through the new birth ,he now has the Holy Spirit and therefore there is no need for any further experience to ask for and receive the Holy Spirit of God. In fact there are those that say it is unscriptural to ask and that no where in the bible are we told to ask for the Holy Spirit. And to keep their congregations from doing any research or inquiring about the reality of such an experience some ministers use scare tactics , by saying it is a sin to ask or search for the Holy spirit, for as a Christian you have the Holy Spirit and asking and searching for The Holy Spirit is unbelief and unbelief is sin . However in Luke 11:13 Jesus says “ ---- how much more Shall the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask Him.” Jesus is telling us to ask.

Then on the other hand there are those that insist that there is a second experience, because the book of Acts is full of examples of individuals that were already believers and received the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands by other believers. Some of the scriptures that deal with these incidents are Acts 8:17, 10:44 & 19: 6. and others. There are some ministries that go so far as referring to this experience as receiving the fullness of the Spirit, when in fact Paul refers to this as a down payment only or the earnest of our inheritance in Eph.1: 14. Now if this experience is only the down payment on our inheritance to come ; we can expect that the full payment will also come with another outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

This is what Eph. 1:12-14 is telling us, that there are not only one or two experiences for the believer but, rather there are going to be a total of three before Jesus returns. But I am getting ahead of myself, and will get back to this a little later.

Getting back to the salvation or conversion experience; if receiving Christ by faith does not automatically give us the baptism in the Holy Spirit, then what kind of a Spirit does the believer receive? In order to understand the difference between these two experiences we have to look at Rom. 8: 9-11. “But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you, Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His (not saved) 10 And if Christ is in you, ( born again) the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life, because of (Christ’s) righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him (God’s) that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwells in you.” As you will have noticed that Paul makes reference to the Spirit of God and also to the Spirit of Christ. This is almost universally taken to be one and the same Spirit, namely the Holy Spirit of God. When we become a believer through receiving Christ it is Christ’s Spirit that we receive (which is also Holy), He breath’s on us just as He did on the disciples behind locked doors, and our spirit is saved from eternal condemnation or else we refer to this experience as being saved by grace through faith.

Christ’s death on the cross was for much more then to save our Spirit, Paul says in Thess.5:23 “ I pray God that your whole body, soul and spirit be preserved blameless unto the coming of the Lord. ”God not only wants to save our spirit, but also our soul and body. For us as sinners and even as believers God has ordained experiences that Christ our for runner has and will fulfill. John seeing Jesus says “ behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world" (salvation). And then again a little later he says, “ I baptize you with water but He that come after me, shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit( God’s Spirit) and with Fire.( Holiness & Righteousness)” The first statement that John made about Jesus is our salvation experience. “ Christ came into the world to save sinners.” (it’s for all mankind in all the world) The second statement was proclaiming the second and third experiences which are available for all Christians. The second experience is the Pentecostal experience or referred to as the baptism with the Holy Spirit. This is the work of Christ and not the Holy Spirit and therefore it is for the saved or born again and have received the Spirit of Christ. John says, ”He that comes after me (Christ) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” 

Now Rom. 8:10 says “And if Christ ( His Spirit) be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit (Christ’s Spirit in your body) is life because of (His) righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him (Gods Holy Spirit) that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you (if baptized with the Holy Spirit) , He (God) that raised up Christ from the dead shall quicken (raise up) your mortal bodies by His Spirit (God’s) that dwells (been baptized) in you. What this scripture is saying that when you and I have received salvation through receiving the Spirit of Christ, then our spirits are alive and saved, but the body is dead, because of sin. But if we want our bodies to be alive or raised up from the dead we need God’s Holy Spirit to dwell within us now and not only the spirit of Christ, because it is that same Spirit (God’s Spirit) that raised up Christ from the dead, that will quicken or raise up our mortal bodies. If the Spirit of God dwells in you, it is the guarantee or down payment of the full possession to come, (Eph. 1:14) but it is not the fullness as some would have us believe. The fullness cannot be achieved till Christ the for runner has opened the way for us, by entering in ahead of us. His desire is for us is to reign and rule with Him throughout the thousand years, and in order for us to qualify for this honor, we will have to die to the self life and be an over comer, ( Luke 14:26) and to some possibly to be a martyr for Christ. 

Let me make an observation here last I be misunderstood. When speaking of these experiences man looks on the outward, but God looks on the heart. What I mean to say is that there will be situations where outwardly the individual has professed to the salvation experience only, but God has done a work of grace much beyond the salvation experience in their life. On the contrary there could be those that claim they have the second experience of receiving the baptism with the Holy Spirit, but the fruit of their life does not show it, however God looks on their heart, man looks on the outward. However if a believer or minister that objects or hinders those that claim to have or want to receive another experience with God, in the Spirit and are hindering God’s work by keeping the flock from entering into the baptism with the Holy Spirit, they are kicking against the pricks, just as Saul of Tarsus did, all that can be done is to pray that God will intervene like He did with Saul.

There are those that will say that what I am suggesting is works and that scripture says that salvation is by grace, a free gift of God. Yes salvation is a free gift of God which we receive by faith, however once a Christian we are a slave to Christ and we have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, (Phil.2:12) yes there are works, not works in our own self and strength, but works in the power of the Holy Ghost, Christ and God. “ For it is God who works in you both to will and to do His good pleasure. ”Phil. 2:13 

The third spiritual experience will bring us into the fullness of Jesus Christ. However there is no one that has walked in this fullness to this point, the reason being that all these experiences have to be fulfilled by Christ, before we can enter into them through our own experience. Actually what Christ came to fulfill was the law and feasts that the Jews were required to keep. (Matt. 5:17) They kept the yearly Feasts of which there were three main ones that were commanded by God that they keep them every year. (Exodus 23:14-16) The first Feast was Passover or Feast of Unleavened Bread, the second was the Feast of Pentecost or also called the Feast of First Fruits.

The third was the Feast of Tabernacles or the Feast of Ingathering. Christ fulfilled Passover by becoming the Lamb of God, and was sacrificed for our sins on the very day of that Feast. (John 13:1) He fulfilled Pentecost by baptizing them with the Holy Spirit of God on the very day of the Feast of Pentecost. .(Acts 2:1) The third, Feast of Tabernacles there is no record to be found in the scriptures that Christ has fulfilled this Feast. Christ did go to observe this Feast as He did all others during His life here on earth, but that was not fulfilling them. When the scriptures so clearly and vividly relate to us in detail how the first and second Feast were fulfilled by Christ on the exact days that the Jews kept them, we can be confident that the third and last Feast of Tabernacles will also be fulfilled by Christ on the very day that the Jews keep this Feast. Christianity almost unanimously agrees that we can receive these experiences by faith into our life, therefore I believe it is mandatory that the third and most important Feast of Tabernacles will also be fulfilled, not in heaven as some believe but here on this earth before Christ returns. Just as the Feast of Tabernacles was at the end of the year, likewise the fulfillment of this Feast by Christ will be at the end of the church age, before we enter into the One Thousand Year Reign with Christ. 

There are some that believe the third Feast of Tabernacles will take place in heaven after the rapture has taken place. However the very purposes of these experiences is to prepare the church to reign with Christ in the thousand years here on earth, (God’s third Day) and this preparation must take place while we are living on this earth, during God’s second day. There is therefore yet another experience coming to the Church before the close of this age, that has to be initiated or fulfilled by Christ Himself. The exciting part is that scriptures teach for just such an event to happen, although it seems that God has kept it hidden till these last days, (or is it God ?) But just as God sent His Son in the fullness of time, He will again reveal himself through Christ in the fullness of time. We are on the verge of this revelation of Christ to happen, and the scriptures are full of the evidence of this.Eph.1:10 “That in the dispensation of the fullness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth; even in Him.”

When John the Baptist said “ He that comes after me shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with Fire.”, he was indicating that there were two experiences to come and not just one as most of the church has believed. The Holy Spirit baptism happened on the Day of Pentecost, fifty days after His death. The other baptism with Fire (for cleansing and holiness) is still future, and is a separate experience from the Holy Spirit baptism. Although the disciples had cloven tongues of fire on their heads it was not the cleansing fire of the Holy Spirit. The baptism at Pentecost was for power for witnessing , (Acts.1:8) although the disciples did seem to receive more of the holiness and righteousness then what we see today. There is a baptism coming that will literally infuse a holiness and righteousness into the believer that will bring them into the fullness of Christ, here on earth (not in heaven) before Christ’s return.

There are those that will say it is impossible, yes with man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible. God is a God who works in the hearts of those that believe. These experience are not bestowed upon a believer automatically , but we have to receive them into our hearts by faith and God will do the rest Here are a few of the scriptures that speak of Christ’s appearing to the saints” Eph. 3:4 “when Christ who is our life, shall appear, then shall we also appear with Him in glory. Heb. 9:28 “ --- and unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

1Peter:5:4; “And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, we shall receive a crown of glory that does not fade away.” 

1John 2:28 “that when He shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. 

1John 3:2 "but we know that when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.”

2Tim. 4:1 “and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick (living) and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom.” 

Titus 2:13. “and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ.” 

1Peter 1:7 “thou it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ. 

Malichi: 1:1-3 “ Behold I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me, and the :Lord whom you seek, shall suddenly come to His Temple,( His Church) even the messenger of the covenant, whom you delight in, behold He shall come, saith the Lord of hosts. But who may abide the day of His coming? And who shall stand when He appears? For He is like a refiners fire and like fullers soap. And He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and He shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver , that they may offer unto the Lord an offering of

righteousness.”

The messenger that the Lord will send to prepare the way before the Lord is another subject in itself, But I would like to point out that just as John the Baptist was the forerunner or messenger sent to prepare the way for Jesus ministry, (Matt. 17:12&13) in the same way a messenger (in the spirit of Elijah) will again be manifested in the earth to prepare the way for Christ’s appearing in His temple. (His Church) (Mal. 4:5) also Matt. 17: 11 “Eliajh truly shall first come and restore all things” We all agree that the Church corporately as well as all of us individually are the temple of God . 1 Cor. 3:16 , 2 Cor. 6:16. & Mal. 3:1-3. tell us that all who seek and delight themselves in the Lord or are expecting His return, will receive a visitation from the Lord, (shall suddenly come to His temple – the church) but who shall be ready or able to stand at His appearing. He is coming as a cleansing fire and as fullers soap to cleans the house of Levi. (the priest hood of all believers) As fire purifies gold and silver, so will He purify His Church, baptizing them and thus infusing into them that are prepared for Him, with a holiness and righteousness that can be done only by Jesus Christ. 1 John 3: 2 “When He shall appear, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.” also ,Col. 3:4 “When Christ who is your life shall appear, (in His Temple – (the Church ) then shall you also appear with Him in glory.”

To appear with Christ in glory, is to take on His dignity, honor praise & glory, and to appear with Him in the heavenly or in the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom of heaven is a spiritual realm and is all around us and in us, but can not be seen. Luke 17:20 It is not some abstract place far, far away which is being referred to as heaven (air or atmosphere) . The kingdom of heaven is within us and when we die our body is buried, but our soul and spirit are released into the spirit world, which is the real kingdom of heaven, because God is Spirit. It is God’s desire to give us as believers the kingdom. Luke 12: 32. Many believe that when things in this world get so sinful and wicked the Lord will take them out of this world, which is referred to as the rapture. But Jesus in His prayer for His disciples when His hour had come prayed, “ I pray not that you should take them out of world, but that you should keep them from the evil. (one)” John 17:15 

There is a catching away or meeting of the Lord in the air, (2 Thess.4: 16 & 17) the question is when does this take place? Eph. 5: 26 & 27 tell us that Christ is coming for a church that is cleansed by the washing of the water by the word, so that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle, or any such thing. I realize that there are those that believe that the church is ready to be raptured because of the blood that Jesus spilt for us on the cross; yes God sees us through the blood of Jesus and when He sees the blood, He sees us as holy and without spot or wrinkle. However it is not God that is coming for the church Christ’s bride, but Jesus Himself is going to receive the church unto Himself, and because of His death and resurrection and baptisms that have been made available to each believer through faith, He is coming for a church or believers that are over comers and died to self. We don’t have to look too far to see that we the church are far from perfect. All we have to do is look inwardly into our own life, self and our ego are our greatest enemy. When we look at the church in general, it looks hopeless with all the bickering and dissentions going on and ministers are falling into sin all around us. The world and unbelievers are scoffing at the church and God. In the natural it looks hopeless, but Jesus said “I will build My church, and the gates of hell shall not stand against it,” Yes the church needs a baptism of fire and of fullers soap to cleanse the house of Levi, (church)

We are on the verge of entering into a new millennium or another age, This new age will start approximately two thousand years from Christ’s resurrection which was probably in the year 30 A.D. There was a new age starting with Christ’s resurrection, the Old Testament age was coming to a close with the ministry of John the Baptist and Christ. There will be another ministry coming to the foreground at the close of this age ,in the Spirit of Elijah (Matt 17: 11) Much of Revelation will come to pas during this transition period from this old age to the new age. Our present calendar is out of line with scripture much more then four years like most of us have believed. If Christ was born in the year 4B.C. as we are informed, then he would have been crucified in the year 30 A.D. because He was 30 years old when He started His ministry (Luke 3:23) and we are told according to bible scholars that He ministered for three and one half years, thus making Him to be 331/2 to 34 years old when He died, and there fore would have died in the year 30A.D. It was from Christ’s death or rather His resurrection that our present day calendar should have been based on and not His birth.

The reason for this is based on scripture, because Jesus came to fulfill the Old Testament the Law and the Feasts. The lamb that was slain or sacrificed and the blood that was painted on the door posts the night that they departed out of Egypt, was a substitute for Jesus the Lamb of God that was slain for the sins of the whole world. It was on the tenth day of the month that the lamb was taken out of the flock and held to the fourteenth day, (Exodus 12:2-6) it in fact was held for four days (the four days is very significant) then on the eve of the fourth day it was slain for the whole congregation of Israel. Peter says in 2Peter 3:8 “ beloved be not Ignorant of this one thing, that one day (Lords) is with the Lord as a thousand (earthly) days and a thousand (earthly) days is as one (Lords) day. Therefore Christ who was foreordained before the foundation of the world, (1Peter 1: 20) but was manifest after four days, (4000 yrs.) and was slain on the eve or close of the fourth day , which was the closing of the Old Testament Age. With the resurrection of Christ on Easter morning the first day of the week, it was not only the first day of the week but also the first day of the first millennium of a new age. We are now nearing the close of the second millennium, but it is not as close as we might think or maybe would like it to be, instead of it being around the year two thousand it will probably be more like the year two thousand and thirty.

There are however many more interesting and exciting events to take place before this new age or millennium arrives. Just as the political and secular events and knowledge have exhilarated, in the past decade, in the same way the spiritual will exhilarate as we get closer to the end of this age. (first the natural and then the spiritual (1 Cor.15:46) First we will see the anointed ministries by a people that will come in the spirit of Elijah and they will prepare the way for the manifested Sons of God, they will receive an infusion of holiness and righteousness through the third (Tabernacle) experience that Christ will bestow on them at His appearing in them (His Temple). At the same time much of what Revelation has to say about the great tribulation and the anti-(another) Christ, will be taking place at the same time, but the Church (the woman of Rev. 12:1) is protected and taken into the wilderness as upon eagles wings, where God feeds her for three and one half years. 

My purpose in writing this is to encourage us as believers in Christ’s return to set up His kingdom here on this earth, that we would be found worthy, as true disciples of Christ, to reign and rule with him. This is my prayer for myself and all believers in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior.

May God inspire you and bless you as you look to Him for guidance and direction in your Spiritual journey with Him.

Dave Loewen

Triune Last Days Ministries